Fulfillment Of Seeking
Interview with Shri Mataji @ Lewes Town Hall
Q: I didn’t really understand how long ago did this particular philosophy was available, came into being, and how is it different from the more ancient concepts. How is it different from the older yoga?
Shri Mataji : Oh! It is absolutely traditional. It’s absolutely traditional. It is so ancient. This Sahaja Yoga is as ancient as anything else. It was fourteen thousand years back also there was this Markandeya was born. He has talked about it. Sahaja Yoga is the most ancient thing. But we had three types of movements in the seeking, all right, in India.
And now the Hatha yoga that you call, is also nothing but Sahaja Yoga because in that we have got Ashtangas (literally means “eight-limbed yoga”). There are eight things that you have to do. And in the Patanjali Shastra which is the real origin of all the yogas you do this today, there are eight-fold paths. I mean, eight things you have to do, out of which the first and the foremost thing is Ishwara Pranidana, means the Establishment of God within you. And the thing we do these days, you see, so-called yoga, standing on your head business, is one third of the eighth part when the yama niyama, when the discipline of the students is of a particular type. Means when at that time when they were practicing Hatha yoga in the traditional way, the whole system in India was like this that the children would live with the parents up to five years of age. After that they would go to their Guru who was a realized soul to that university and that university was called as the Gotra. For example, my Gotra is Shandilya. Now I cannot marry a man who is from the same Gotra, from the university. So that Guru was Shandilya, was the Guru of my so many forefathers. You see, he lived about fifteen thousand years back.
Now his, I mean, we are supposed to be the members of that university. We cannot marry in the same university, means such a celibate life they lead, you see. So that was called yama niyama, means those were the laws of those universities where people had to lead a life of complete celibacy and complete purity and the children of that university or students of that University were brothers and sisters. And then the first thing when they had to do anything towards God they had to do Ishwara Pranidana, means giving them realization. And that was done by Sahaja, means spontaneous method. Sahaja means born with you. It is born with you spontaneously.
So the most traditional thing is to give realization with this. The first one we read in the books about this is, of course, is the Indra. Indra was the king of all the Gods. And he got his realization sixteen thousand years back according to the historical calculations they have, but later on at the time of Rama, his father- in-law, Sita’s father (Shri Raja Janaka), gave realization to one person called Nachiketa.
So, I mean, very few people got it, though, but the whole attitude of Indian life is that you have to take your Self-realization. That is, should be the basic of your life. Everything depends on that. So their music is based on that, their art is based on that, their clothes are based on that. Their whole pattern is based, by which you lead a balanced life to have the ascent of Self-realization. But ascent is only achieved through Sahaja – means spontaneous but is done by a Guru who is a realized soul.
It’s the most traditional thing, but how it was kept a secret because there were very few realized souls. So this third path, we call the central path of evolution, was not so much talked about. Though Markandeya, fourteen thousand years back, has talked about Kundalini, about Self-realization, but how it works out, they did not know. They kept it like a secret but we had another movement in which, according to Vedas, they tried to initiate or, we can call it, to awaken the nature. That one was done on the Veda side – Veda means to know.
Even I was happy to know that the motto of your university is what to be still and to know. It’s Sahaja; is Sahaja. Now to know, means what? Know means that you should have the knowledge of the spirit in your central nervous system. The first, first sentence of the Veda is that by reading all these Vedas, if you do not know, then it is all useless. The first declaration is so clear-cut.
So the Vedas were used to awaken the Nature.
The result of this is the science today that we know about – how to use the powers of nature of the five elements. And the another side was, what we call the left side movement, was that people were spending their time in Bhakti, in devotion. So we had two types of movements, one towards discovering the nature’s powers and empowering them and the another one by which to ask God to bless. But the third one was this giving Self-realization. And which was done with very great care and understanding of human beings. But today, it has become a mass thing; it has to be. After some time everything has to be for the utility of the masses.
For example, when electricity was developed, people didn’t know much about it. Only few people knew how to do it. But when it became all right for masses to know, they had to tell the masses. If the people do not know about it, what’s the use of discovering it? It’s the most traditional thing, but only difference is today, many can take advantage of it. All right?
Not in India, everywhere. Not only in India, everywhere. If you read Tao, same thing. Lao Tse has said the same thing. Zen is just the same thing. I mean, anything is the same that you have to become realized soul.
You might say Moses didn’t talk about it because Moses first wanted people to balance. You see, that was the stage for them to develop a balance in life. So he talked about balancing. But Christ talked about it because he came for the ascent. Like every tree grows from the roots, then you get the leaves and then ultimately you reach to the stage of flowers. In the same way the growth of our evolution has been brought forth by these great prophets who came on this earth, incarnations who came to this earth, and gradually they built it up on these centres, and you will realize that the first centre is the centre where we really became living things because that’s the carbon where it was introduced into the chemistry and when the carbon came in, the life came in. So the first centre represents the carbon stage and then gradually every stage represents our higher awareness and higher awareness, till we reach this stage where you become a human being. But when it opens out, you become the ultimate, the absolute.
That was a good question. Any other question, please? It’s all related; again I’ll say that Sahaja yoga is very much related to Hatha Yoga. “Ha” and “Tha” means these two channels that we show here. “Ha” is the Surya Nadi, means the one which is the channel for our activity and the second one is the “Tha”, is the one which is for our emotions. We use both these channels. But we know exactly what to use where. For example, now, somebody is bending forwards and bending backwards; is not correct, because there are people of different temperaments.
For example, a person who suffers, say, from inferiority complex should never bend forward; all exercises should be done backwards. The one who has got ego should bend forward. You see, there is discrimination. What we do in our yoga system is that indiscriminately we take all the medicines, whether we are suffering from the stomach or trouble or any other trouble. We have to find out what exactly is wrong with us. Once you find out the obstruction then you will know which asana you have to do, which exercise you have to do, how to raise the Kundalini (subtle innate motherly energy), how to remove the obstruction. Now, for example, I found out that so many of these diseases are caused by the disturbance of the first chakra. So many of these, even mellitus, and Parkinson’s and all these things, are caused by the disturbance of the first chakra. Now if you don’t do the exercise of the first chakra, what’s the use? You cannot help yourself. So you must also know what exercise is to be done, what …
Put our steering on one side, God knows where we would have arrived! So when you start the Kundalini (innate subtle energy), you know where to stop it, what to do it, how to raise it, what is the problem, at what centre you have to do what. All right? So this is a thing you should see for yourself. Not just to follow something, stand on your head, do this exercise. You can land up with great difficulties, into great problems. We have seen people getting terrible problems with this Hatha yoga also, because they are just doing it without understanding anything. That’s why I say that you must have the knowledge of the roots first.
Now, any other question, please?
You see, in such a short time I can’t tell you everything about Sahaja Yoga. As you know, it’s such a vast subject and a new chapter of knowledge opens now which is the knowledge of the roots, while you have the knowledge of the tree. But this is the knowledge of the roots. So you have to keep your mind open and gradually learn all about it, which is very simple, but unless and until you get your realization, you better not try to understand it through your mental process because mental process can take you up to a point but will not allow you to enter inside. So better see for yourself what it is and then try to understand how to work it out.
It’s all your own; it’s your properties, your wealth, your glory. And that’s all you have to know. What I just do is to tell you how to turn The Key.”
The above was an excerpt from an Interview with the founder of Sahaja Yoga meditation in Lewes, UK, on May 25th, 1983
We have shared also some of the beautiful posters created by the very creative Sahaja Yogis from Halton region of Ontario province, Canada. In the last 14 years we have offered a multitude of successful events in our community, with thousands of seekers learning about and experiencing the depth of Sahaja Yoga Meditation – always free of charge.